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Unpacking the GOAT Debate: Why LeBron Might Be the One
Who truly deserves the title of basketball's greatest of all time: Michael Jordan or LeBron James? Join me, D Turnipseed, as I tackle this electrifying debate with a bold assertion that LeBron might just be the GOAT. Through a meticulous examination of career stats, including his record-breaking point totals and impressive rankings in assists, steals, and three-point shots, I lay out a compelling case for LeBron's supremacy. Dive into the details of his stellar playoff performances and reflect on his four MVP awards and four championships, which underscore his sustained excellence and influence over a decade. This episode promises to unravel the layers of LeBron's basketball legacy, inviting you to weigh in on a topic that has captivated sports fans worldwide.
Welcome in. Welcome in to the Third Down Conversation, your place for sports and entertainment. I am your host, d Turnip Seed, and this is episode number one. Turnip Seed, and this is episode number one. Thank you for joining, thank you for listening. Thank you for listening Again.
Speaker 1:This is the Third Down Conversation and I am D Turnip Seed, and on the Third Down Conversation, we're about having authentic conversations about sports and entertainment, but we're about putting those things in proper context, because without proper context, you could form the wrong idea. Therefore, we're going to keep it real, we're going to keep it authentic and we're we gonna keep it in context. But this first episode, we will be discussing who is the GOAT Michael Jordan or LeBron James and I'm here to tell you, folks, it just might be LeBron James. It just might be LeBron James. But before you jump on me, before you get all upset, let me make my case. Let me make my case. The four categories that I will highlight will be career stats, that's, regular season and playoffs. Awards and accolades LeBron's peak and clutch time, aka winning time. So let's jump into his overall career stats for the regular season and the playoffs.
Speaker 1:So, regular season wise, lebron James is the all-time leader in points scored, which is odd because LeBron isn't thought of as this prolific scorer. Most people would say Michael Jordan, kobe, kevin Durant. As far as when it comes to getting a bucket, if you need a bucket, those guys come first. Some would even say Carmelo Anthony, like even LeBron James. When they talk, talk about him, they mention his passing, they mention his leadership. They don't talk about him as a scorer. So him being the all-time leader in scoring is odd. It's odd, but hey, lebron James is the all-time leader in points scored. He's also top five in assists and he's top ten in steals. So Paul's right there. Paul's right there. He's top ten in three separate categories. No other player can say that Not MJ, not Kobe. No other player can say that not MJ, not Kobe.
Speaker 1:As for what he is shooting from the field for his career in the regular season, he's shooting 50 percent, like that's centers and power forwards they shoot that percentage. And yes, lebron gets to the basket, often plays a lot of bully ball and probably should play more bully ball, but he takes his fair share of mid-range shots and he takes a lot of threes. And yes, with how the game is played today, they all taking threes, but LeBron is top 10 in threes made all time, which is I got to admit it's kind of impressive because personally I don't believe LeBron can shoot. I'm pretty sure that the scouting report says let LeBron shoot, none say run him off the three-point line and he's adjusted, I mean. So maybe those defensive strategies need to change as well, because he's making them Like he's making them.
Speaker 1:Now let's examine his playoff stats. As you know, playoffs winning time teams are actually going to play defense in the NBA during the playoffs. So how has LeBron done all time? Well, he's first in points. He's second in assists. He's first in steals. He's top five in rebounds. He's top 10 in blocks. He is dominating. It's pure domination. Nobody else can say that. The guy's pure domination. Nobody else can say that. The guy's doing everything. He's not just a one-trick pony, he's doing it all. And what is he shooting? I'm glad you asked. He's shooting 49% in the playoffs for his career. Let that sink in 49 in the playoffs. It screams goat.
Speaker 1:Now let's transition to his awards. Lebron has four mvps. He has four championships. He has four finals mvps.
Speaker 1:But the accolade to me that is the most impressive is that he is a 20 time all nba selection. What does that mean? It means that since he hit the door to enter the league, he has been a top 15 player because the all NBA team there's a first team, there's a second team, there's a third team. There's only five players per team. He's been named to one of those teams 20 times. He's in year 22 currently.
Speaker 1:To put it into context Kobe was an All-NBA selection 15 times. He played 20 seasons. Mj was an All-NBA selection 11 times. He played 20 seasons. Mj was an all NBA selection 11 times. He played 15 seasons. Lebron has missed being one only twice. It's GOAT. I see why Shannon Shark calls him GOAT James. I mean, I see why the teammates in the locker room making the goat noises. You've been a top 15 guy since you hit the door, since you entered. Come on, man, hard day. Hey, don't hate greatness, don't hate greatness. Now let's move on to his peak.
Speaker 1:Now I define peak as the point where there was no doubt that you were the best player in the league. At that point it's like okay, your peak is now started, until the point where some people start to say there's some slippage. You're not as good as you once were and, in my opinion, lebron James had a 10-year peak. He ran the league from 2011 until 2021. And, yes, lebron won the MVP in 2009 and 2010. However, kobe won back-to-back NBA finals in 2009 and 2010. So, in my opinion, kobe was the better guy at that point in time.
Speaker 1:And that's no slight towards LeBron, because during his peak that I just listed, from 2011 until 2021, steph Curry won two MVPs during that time. But that didn't make Steph better than LeBron and, for the record, he wasn't. And I'm a Steph fan and I'm a Steph fan. I'm a Steph fan, but Steph was not better than LeBron at that time. So, during his peak, lebron won two MVPs. He got all his championships during that time. He got the finals MVPs during that time. He got, you know, the finals MVPs during that time.
Speaker 1:But, most importantly, he came back from 3-1 down to the 73-win Warriors and, man, that hurt me. Again, I'm a Steph fan. I was pulling for Steph, like I'm pulling for Steph Pulling for Klay. They light-skinned, I'm light-skinned. We got to stick together. So I'm pulling for him.
Speaker 1:That series. But games five, six and seven LeBron was incredible. I mean game five he drops 41, 11 assists, eight rebounds. Game six he drops 41, 10 assists, eight rebounds. Game seven, he drops 27, 11, and, yes, kyrie deserves more credit for that series. He was phenomenal as well, but we all know that LeBron was the head of the snake of the calves. That block he had on Iggy in Game 7? Legendary, legendary, and no one else can say they've done something like that. Everyone counted him out. And to come back, man, goat, goat James. I can hear Shannon Sharp screaming now, goat James got a little goat mask on and everything. Goat James. And it's hard to argue. It's hard to argue.
Speaker 1:Now let's move on to clutch time. The NBA defines clutch time as the final five minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime, when the score is within five points. So how does LeBron perform during this moment of the game? Skip Bayless would tell you that LeBron was not born with the clutch gene. That's what Skip would tell you. Well, what do the numbers say? What do the numbers say? The numbers say that in the regular season, lebron is shooting 51% in clutch time. 51% in the playoffs oh the playoffs he is shooting 52% during clutch time. So he gets better. Like he gets better. Like he gets better, he gets better.
Speaker 1:Let's take it a step further. In the regular season, lebron James has the second most made game winning shots, but I got one more for you. In the playoffs, lebron has the most game winning shots. So let me get this straight His overall stats regular season and playoffs he's dominating everybody. His awards and accolades are very comparable to MJ. During his peak, he came back and beat the greatest team ever assembled in the Golden State Warriors, who won 73 games. And he's clutch. He does, in fact, have the clutch gene.
Speaker 1:So how can you sit here and tell me that he's not the GOAT? Well, when I come back, I'm going to explain to you how he's not the GOAT, but first, please do me a favor and hit that subscribe button. Shows drop every Tuesday and I want you guys along for the ride. Also, follow me on Twitter and Instagram at the Third Down Conversation. This podcast can be found on Spotify, apple, google or wherever else that you find podcasts.
Speaker 1:Now let's jump back into the show and start our next conversation. This second segment will be about why LeBron James is not the GOAT, and a lot of it will come down to putting things into proper context. So let's start back in 2008. Back in 2008, lebron was still with the Cavaliers. He was in the final two years of his deal, the media would tell you those Cavaliers teams were no good and that he left for Miami because those teams in Cleveland just couldn't get it done.
Speaker 1:The 08-09 season the Cavaliers won 66 games. In 09 and 2010, the Cavaliers won 61 games In 08,. They made the Eastern Conference Finals. In 09, they made the second round of the playoffs. During the playoffs for both of those seasons the Cavs had at least three players to average double figures in scoring for the playoffs. Why is that significant? From 2003 to 2010, the team that won the NBA Finals had at least three players to average double digits in scoring Every team that won from 03 to 2010. The Cavs also had that. So they had enough.
Speaker 1:But LeBron bolts and goes and takes his talents to South Beach, joins D-Wade and Chris Bosh and at that time Chris Bosh was a top five scorer in the league and D-Wade was a top ten scorer in the league. That Wade was a top 10 score in the league. That's some serious talent on one team. They in fact formed the first super team. Now LeBron fans in the media will say no, the first super team was the Boston Celtics Paul Pierce, kg and Ray Allen. They were a big three. Yes, no, super team. All of those guys were over 30 and clearly out of their prime. Braun, wade and Bosh were just entering their prime, which is why it was called a super team, their prime, which is why it was called a super team.
Speaker 1:So you need that kind of help to get your first championship. Mj didn't need that. Scottie Pippen was drafted and MJ brought Scottie along. Kobe didn't need that. The Lakers didn't need that. The Lakers didn't win with Shaq until Kobe started doing what he was doing.
Speaker 1:But you go to the Heat. You win a bunch of games, as expected. You make the finals, you play the Dallas Mavericks, dirk Nowinski, and you lose in six games. You and you lose in six games. You don't only lose in six games. You have a horrible series. Some would say you choked. I wouldn't go that far. I don't think you choked, definitely didn't play well and the pressure got to you. I mean, in one of those games in the finals against the Mavs, lebron only scores eight points. That's wild. How do you succumb to that kind of pressure? That's why they said D-Wade had to show you how to win, while you got guys like MJ and Kobe who did it the hard way. They didn't have anyone show them the ropes, they went and did it themselves.
Speaker 1:But the next year you finally get that elusive championship and to the Heat's credit, lebron's credit, you go back to back, even though the Spurs had you on the ropes. But then you play the Spurs again. And what happened that time? The Spurs beat D-Way, bosh and LeBron in five games and set a new league record for point differential in the finals. What does that mean? Point differential is all about the amount of points scored versus the amount of points allowed. Versus the amount of points allowed, the Spurs beat the Heat by 21, by 20, by 19, and by 15. In other words, the games were not close. They were blowing the Heat out. And if you look at the stats, wade did not play well. Wade didn't play well at all.
Speaker 1:But again, if you are who you claim to be, you got to get that done. You for sure can't get blowed out. At least make it competitive, right. That Heat team underachieved. Lebron gets there and claims they're going to win five championships. He only get two. He let the Spurs run you out of the building.
Speaker 1:So when that experiment starts to break down, you're ready to bolt and the media would tell you that, oh, he just wants to go home. He just wants to go home, back to Cleveland, just wants to go home, back to Cleveland. But it was real ironic that the Cavs had a superstar in the making and Kyrie Irving at the time. So you leave, you go back to Cleveland, you team up with Kyrie and then you have the Cavs trade for Kevin Love, who at the time was a top five score in the league. People don't realize just how good Kevin Love was as a player. When he got to the Cavs he became more of a third wheel. Kevin Love was a really good player. So you leave the Heat and then you go form another super team in Cleveland. If my map is correct, you form two super teams.
Speaker 1:That doesn't scream go. It does scream stacking the deck, making it hard for me to lose. It screams that LeBron has four championships and that's honestly a good number. But the reason why it won't put a dent in five, which Kobe has, or six, which MJ has, is because LeBron doesn't have a three-peat. I truly feel like if he had a three-peat in those four championships, it would mean more, like it would almost give him a little bump. The reason why MJ and Kobe are so like superior to his four. Yes, it's more, but they got three-peats, kobe's got one, mj's got two, so his four that came so spread out, in a sense it loses some luster compared to those two guys Also having a losing record in the finals. It doesn't help his case Because, again, it's about winning. You can have the stats, you can have the accolades, but if you're not winning, then what is it all for? Especially when I feel like if Bron is as good as he say he is, he shouldn't have a losing record in the finals.
Speaker 1:Lebron himself said after he came back on the Warriors that that made him the GOAT. That's obviously not true. It's not true because he then loses to Steph and KD multiple times and some people will say, well, that was a super team and was. I didn't like that move by Kevin Durant, but I blame the fans and the media, because when LeBron did it they killed him for going to the heat, but as soon as he won they forgot all about it. So Kevin Durant figured that can work for me too. So he did what LeBron did, but did it better, a better version of it, and unfortunately LeBron kind of paid the price, because this is what he started. I'm gonna go link up. I'm gonna go join up. It's hard to walk around saying I'm the GOAT, yet when you get to the finals you can't get the job done.
Speaker 1:A lot of his fans will point to lebron's longevity as to why he's a goat, but longevity has never been used to bolster that point, mainly because science evolves. Things change. We learn more, which helps us better prepare. Which is why, when it comes to this GOAT debate, it's all about peak. And during LeBron's peak, steph Curry got three championships on him. He went up against LeBron to get those championships and that's why that point matters.
Speaker 1:It wasn't that LeBron didn't those championships, and that's why that point matters. It wasn't that LeBron didn't make it. They faced each other. He won. So during your peak, another guy beat you head to head. How are you to go?
Speaker 1:And recently, lebron James just passed MJ in total 30-point games. It took LeBron seven extra years to pass MJ. A lot of his fans and the media are really hyping that up, but that's more of a feather in MJ's cap that it took you an extra seven seasons just to catch him. I mean, that's something to be celebrated, no doubt, like no doubt, but to make it seem like, oh, he passed MJ. Well, it took you seven extra seasons. So, yes, it is an accomplishment, but keep it in perspective. Keep it in perspective.
Speaker 1:So the last thing I would like to hit on as to why Braun is not the GOAT deals with D-Wade, sports media and his fans. Sports media and his fans. D-way stated on a podcast that the big three in Miami which really is a super team, as we've already discussed came together due to Kobe Bryant. He stated that in 2010, when Kobe won his fifth championship, that he was tired of seeing Kobe win, so he got brawn and botched on the phone and that's when joining up and playing together all started to kind of form up. And that's just so odd, because sports media and LeBron fans would tell you that the big three in Boston, they came together to stop LeBron and they used that to show you how great LeBron is. So what does that mean for Kobe, when you got the likes of LeBron, wade and Bosh coming together to stop him?
Speaker 1:As for the sports media and his fans, when he wins, it's all him. When he loses, he doesn't have enough help. It never fails the amount of times the media or fans or whatever organization he's playing for, has scapegoated a player, a coach. It's ridiculous. I did not hear or see when Kobe was playing that he didn't have enough help, and he's out there with dudes named Smush Parker. Y'all don't even know who that is. That's my point. Or MJ ain't got enough? Like that wasn't the narrative. It was that they gotta get it done, got to get it done, they got to get it done. But for LeBron the rules are different. It's oh, he needs more help or oh, he's so great. Look at him. Never to blame. It's like the media and fans want LeBron to be the GOAT Pressure and the expectations that come along with that. They try to bail him out. Now, don't get it twisted.
Speaker 1:Lebron is an all-time great. He's a Mount Rushmore player and, for me, easily top five. I know he's one of the best ever. Those stats I was talking about earlier honestly were incredible and a lot of them shocked me. I completely understand why someone would make the case as to why he is the greatest, but when you really break it down and look through it which most people won't you can see why he's not the greatest. But that doesn't mean he isn't great. All right, peeps, this will conclude our first episode. Please leave a comment and let me know who you think is the greatest. Also, leave a review and remember this is the Third Down Conversation. Episodes will drop every Tuesday. We keep it real, we keep it authentic and we keep it in context. Jesus loves you and I'm you.
